Hauppauge HD-PVR Update – The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Hauppauge HD-PVR
Those of you following the geek tonic blog know that I’ve been really excited about the Hauppauge HD-PVR and what it does for the HTPC world.  Note: Read this writeup on the Hauppauge HD-PVR for more on the device

NOTE: Dell currently has a very good deal on the HD-PVR for the month of March 2009


  After more than a week with my HD-PVR I can now say that my excitement has not waned.  This thing brings all the channels: HD, digital, SD – everything to the HTPC user without needing to worry about CableCard, broadcast flags or other DRM issues.  I’m still working out the final details for my complete review of the device, but had a few points I wanted to mention to the readers on the HD-PVR.  I just watched the movie: “The Good, The Bad and The Ugly” this week so bear with me as I follow that theme…

First the Good:Good

  • The HD-PVR video quality is excellent.  I was a little worried about how much picture quality loss I’d get since the device is essentially taking a once digital signal that is converted to analog and encoded in H.264 and pushed right to your HTPC.  I can say that after testing 1080i and all the other formats I can get out of my Time Warner cable box and comparing it to OTA HD shows and unencrypted QAM shows from my HDHR, the picture is very, very good.  I’m unable to tell the difference between an HDHR recorded show versus a HD-PVR show.
  • I’ve had error-free recording and live tv viewing from the HD-PVR since day one.  Not a single lockup, hiccup or problem even with heavy use and testing.
  • The device is supported by SageTV (with latest beta) and GB-PVRBeyond TV is not yet supported, but you can get it working with some work.
  • Another tidbit that might surprise some is the fact that you can have multiple HD-PVRs on one HTPC!  This has been proven several times by SageTV users.  The thing to remember here is that it is up to the software maker (SageTV in this case) to support multiple HD-PVR devices so this might not be the case for other HTPC software.
There are more positives to report, but I’ll save that for the full review.

Now for the Bad:Bad

These were all known going into this, but they are disadvantages of the HD-PVR. 
  • You still need a cable box or satellite box
  • You will need to deal with an IR blaster and the inherent delays in channel changes or figure out how to change channels with firewire.  I’m currently using an IR Blaster, but will be going the firewire route for channel changes eventually. 
  • Currently no commercial detection available and not many apps let you easily cut h.264 files.
  • Requires a pretty powerful processor and videocard or SageTV HDExtender to view these h.264 files.
  • The current Hauppauge setup process can be easy if you don’t already own Hauppauge devices, but not always as easy as it should be.  More on that in the review.

Lastly, the Ugly:Ugly

  • Some of the New HD-PVRs are faulty – possible heat issues?  This one fact has been a thorn in the side of several new HD-PVR owners.  There are several of the new HD-PVR units that lock up and won’t record for more than a few minutes at a time.  Most have attributed this to a heat issue, but Hauppauge is stating that they are unsure if it is a heat issue or simply an easy driver fix.  Regardless of the cause, Hauppauge is RMAing several of the units and many of those who returned their faulty HD-PVRs already have a new one back that is working just fine.  It’s never a good thing to have a bunch of bad units when you first come out with a new product, but Hauppauge seems to be working with those affected and handling the situation as best they can.   If you’re experiencing this issue with your new HD-PVR, contact Hauppauge Technical Support where you will be advised on what the next step will be.

Bottom line, the HD-PVR’s are a very good device and despite the ones with heat issues I think once word gets around about what the HD-PVR can do for your HTPC, these things will sell like hotcakes (pardon the pun there.)  Stay tuned to this blog for the complete review – subscribe to the RSS feed so you don’t miss any updates.

UPDATE:  AS OF FEBRUARY 2009, THE HD-PVR IS SUPPORTED BY THE MAC (with SageTV and Elegato), Linux and now even Microsoft Media Center!

Comments:

jakep_82 said...

I would toss one more thing into the bad category. The current driver/firmware doesn't support surround sound. I assume Hauppauge will follow through and fix that, but right now it's a definite downside.

Brent Evans said...

Great point Jake - I forgot about that one. By the way, Hauppauge has said they will be adding 5.1 support in a future driver update - hopefully soon.

Chris said...

Great write-up Brent.

The only thing I would add (and this is a nit) is that there are apparently many more than "several" bad units. Mine is bad, so I'm probably especially sensitive. Cheers,
-Chris

Brent Evans said...

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the comments. Lets just say that when I say "several bad units", that could mean any number of bad units. It's really impossible for me to know how many other than the multiple comments on the SageTV and GB-PVR forums.

There are also several good units including mine thankfully. Regardless, it's unfortunate and definitely fits "the ugly" category. Thank goodness Hauppauge is standing behind their product and taking care of those with the bad ones.

Wayne said...

Brent,
Good synopsis along with the couple additions in the previous comments.

I am one of the lucky ones that apparently got a "good" unit. I've recorded several hours so far with excellent results.

I could add one more BAD. The sticky they use on the IR blaster is horrible. It fell off my cable box in under a minute. Right now I've got a huge honking piece of scotch tape that goes from the top of the box over the IR blaster around to the bottom of the box.

They also really dropped the ball not putting any mention in the Quick Install instructions (all that comes with it) about problems if you have other Hauppauge devices installed.
Then if after you get the software/drivers for the HD PVR installed you re-install your other Hauppauge devices you have to do a registry hack to get the IR blaster to work since the IR driver and Sage can't tell which Hauppauge device you want to use the blaster with.
Given that I have 2 PVR-500's also installed in my SageTV system I had a LOT of trouble getting it all installed.

However once I got everything installed it works great although I did have to massage the IR blaster code delays to get reliable channel changes. I too may go with firewire channel changing in the future.

Wayne said...

Oh, almost forgot to mention that using the Sage HD Extender my paltry P4 2.8Ghz server with 1 gig of ram can handle the HD PVR with ease!
Playback on the HD Extender is smooth and beautiful! Now if we can just get a commercial marking program to work with the H.264 files! Come on ShowAnalyzer and/or Comskip!!!

Erik said...

You mention that playback of h.264 requires a powerful PC. Could you tell us what are your PC specs that you are testing this on?

I am waiting for my HD-PVR unit but was a bit concerned about my "normal" PC. I have played HD videos before without issues... As long as the recordings don't suffer, that's the main goal..

AJM said...

What is the file extension of the video files it produces, will it play on a PS3 or osxmbc without conversion? The instructions do not give you much on the file type that it creates other than a H.264.

Brent Evans said...

Erik,
I upgraded my client PC (not server) to a dual-core, "AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor 2.6GHz". VideoCard is a SAPPHIRE Radeon X1600XT.

My server is a 3Ghz, single core older Dell. There seems to be no additional drain on the server at all - most of the additional strain is on the PC you use for playback. As Wayne said the SageTV HD Extender handles it without blinking...

Brent Evans said...

ajm,
The resulting file is a .ts file. When I look at the details of the file it shows as the following:
MPEG2-TS H.264 1080i, AAC/19Kbps@48kHz Stereo

There are some sample files you can download & check out the bottom of This Post

robgue said...

Thanks for the update. Yours is one of the few sources of information on the hd pvr. I'm really excited about this product and I'm sure like others have been waiting for this kind of more practical solution to recording hd. Im glad to hear about the digital to analog conversion quality. I'll definately be picking one up in near future. Now I'll be waiting for mythtv support...

mindbender9 said...

Hi Brent. Great review, and I found your site from the HD-PVR thread on AVSforums.

I have one of these units on order and have yet to receive it. But I have a question to ask you: Is there a way to "pause" the stream (while recording) to avoid commercials, etc.?

You've mentioned (and others have also) that the software apps out there don't really allow for the editing of .ts files (e.g. removing commercials), and I want to archive my sports feeds without such interruptions.

Thanks!

Brent Evans said...

mindbender9,
You can pause the liveTV stream and fast forward and such, but you can't pause the recorder per se. I think you can use TMGenc to edit the file after the fact, but others like VideoReDo are still working on the ability to edit these h.264 files.

Anonymous said...

One question I have deals with captioning. I have to assume that any captioning normally on line 21(?) analogue side won't be present on component HD side. Anyone have any ideas as to how to record captioning without having it as an overlay? I'd like to record the captioning but make it be optional (just like it normally is when you use a sat/cable/etc box).

Lon said...

Software issues anyone???

I run Vista Ult64 and this is my first attempt at making my PC a HTPC. I have waited a long time to have component inputs into my PC and hoped this would be the answer... I have my PC set up to run DVDs and streamed content to a projector but the Cable Capture/ Display using the PC as a DVR is what I have been waiting for. I can't believe there isn't a PCIe card that does this yet! Why an external device?

OK the software...

WTF is vista 64 not supported???
I can capture great.
So I have a huge .ts file and nothing I can do with it but watch it. The included software is supposed to be able to convert to PS3 or iPOD friendly formats but fails every time. After putting my Dual core AMD at 100 percent for over 2 days!

The IR blaster app comes up blank with 2 broken images I imagine should be buttons.
Total media theatre won't even load.

the WinTV Won't load "Unable to initilize DLL"

I haven't tried Sage but I hope it helps because as of now I have a $250 component input and that's about it.

Brent Evans said...

lon,
Try SageTV - it will definitely make your life easier and you can enjoy your new HD-PVR all the more.

Zach said...

I realize you guys are mostly recording HD content and thus using the h.264 file format for this. But what do you guys use for SD content? I'd think using divx would make the best sense.

Since Warner isn't releasing the rest of the seasons for Growing Pains, I'd like to back them up since they're re-airing it on the N network. h.264 doesn't make a lot of sense to me for that.

Trevor said...

The lack of 5.1 is a big issue for me. After testing the box with a recording of Over the Hedge, I put it on the shelf. Video was fine, but what's the point of watching HD video without at least 5.1 sound? Also note that if you are using optical in, since it does not handle Dolby Digital streams yet, you need to change your STB output format to PCM.

Zetavu said...

Well, a few comments. I was able to get mine up and running with the current Beyondtv beta with little effort. I downloaded the driver (thanks for the link Brent, hard to find on Hauppauge's site alone), plugged in the usb, told it where the driver was, done. Ran BTV setup, added the input (component), it failed to build a graph so you skip that step, done. Recorded shows and played them back right out of the box.

One thing I did have to do is install the Totalmediaextreme software so I could adjust recording settings (as well as audio input, I'm currently using spdif pcm, looking forward to the 5.1 upgrade). Default bitrate is 9mb/s constant, I set it to 13mb/s variable (avg) with max peak (20mb/s). I assume that is what Brent is using for his recordings (maybe not variable, still playing around to see which is best) Once you set the bitrate it appears they are saved and btv uses them. Makes a substantial difference on 1080i signals. (of course many cable or satellite HD channels are compressed, but you should get as good as you get direct to tv.

Playback is smoother than the initial test files, but BTV will be working on this heavily with their next beta.

Erik said...

@brent

Thanks for the reply, I was planning to watch my recordings through my xbox 360 as I would not be getting a SageTV HD Extender. I just got a PS3 today which I think handles h264 (better support than the xbox i believe) but probably just burn them to dvd AVCHD and watch it on the PS3.

@trevor

I did not even think about that (STB PCM output).. Could you possibly have the optical input in your HT receiver and then use a optical output from your receiver to the HD-PVR ? Might not work for all receivers but I have a MD/R optical output that I believe outputs in stereo only. Your recordings would obviously still only be in stereo though.

zetavu said...

BTW Brent, how did you get the file details? Is there software that will tell you video bitrate?

stein said...

For those who plan on using the HD-PVR with a dedicated HTPC, there is a pretty cheap answer to avoid needing a beefy/expensive CPU or video card to view the resulting h.264 encoded files.

The ATI HD3450 has hardware decoding on chip for both h.264 and VC-1 formats, is almost exclusively passively-cooled, has low-profile options, and can be had for 40$ or less.

Also, I highly recommend switching to firewire for channel changing. I know the ease of implementation depends on your STB and PVR software but I essentially went from knowing nothing to having it completely set up in a half hour, and its orders of magnitude more reliable than the IR blaster.

I read that the Hauppauge engineers have isolated the heat problem (to a new batch of chips that have slightly different voltage requirements) so now I can't wait until I get my RMAd box back.

Brent Evans said...

zeta,
The file info came from SageTV's web interface. Using that I can view all of those details of a given recording I'm sure there are other ways to get that information though.

Brent Evans said...

Zeta,
Was thinking about your question some more. To analyze the video files you might try one of these programs that might give you similar info:
Gspot
AviCodec
VideoInspector

On some files (haven't tried with h.264( you can also try to play in Windows Media Player and view the properties from the WMP program.

If you try these,let me know what works for you.

jocedeg said...

Mine works great but there is a thing that bugs me: I recorded a movie at 9 mbits/s and the resulting file size was a bit over 8Gb, just about right for a double-layer DVD. When I tried to "author" the DVD with the supplied software, the resulting file got boosted to 12.9 Gigs, so it won't fit on a double-layer DVD !

Where does that extra 4 gig come from !

Anonymous said...

jcedeg--DVDs use MPEG-2 rather than h.264. So unless you're authoring a "Data DVD" with the .ts or something on them you're authoring program is going to transcode to MPEG-2. MPEG-2 is much less efficient than h.264 which may explain the blow-up, though you need to look at the other parameters since DVDs use 720x480 encoding too (i.e. SD)...

Looks like the SportsCenter file is VBR, and is using a GOP size of around 30, i.e. one per second. Should be possible to do reasonably accurate commercial removal given this but you'll still be better off with something like VideoReDo (once it supports h.264...) which can handle transcoding the partial GOPs etc. Might take a while.

If you want to play these in WMP you can just buy the Elecard h.264 decoder plugins. As others have said though, you're gonna need some horsepower.

Glenn

jocedeg said...

Well, Glenn, sadly your comment does not apply: the ArcSoft program included with the HD-PVR allows you to burn an AVCHD (H.264) file on a DVD with a Blu-ray compatible structure, making it essentially a "fake" Blu-ray disc on a DVD. No MPEG2 involved.

What I discovered is that using the ArcSoft authoring program to make cuts to your HD-PVR file (cutting the few minutes of crap and promos at the beginning and end of a movie, for example) makes the 8 Gig H.264 file bigger. I authored the file, without any cuts, and it fits on a DVD without any problems. But getting rid of two minutes of material ends up making the DVD-ready file 12 Gigs. Who knew than cutting stuff would makes the file almost 50% bigger !

I'll try TMPGenc to see if it helps .

Anonymous said...

Hello I 'm french and I d'like to know if HDPVR can capture PS or xbox360's video in HD ? Have you got an example? Thanks

Anonymous said...

I had a 'brand spanking new' Vista PC built to 'support' this (okay, there were a couple other programs that were 'Vista Only' that drove the cost analysis), and I'm in the middle of trying out recording material that is on my DVR. A big question right now is the 'new' MP4 Creator (off the Hauppauge site) and how/if in integrates (or not) in the Arcsoft software. In doing short tests, the Arcsoft burning pgm seems to work, but longer pieces seem to eat cpu time and never end. More tests comming. But I also saw the 'growth' of the file size when doing minor cuts as well. Interesting, NOT.

Damian said...

This may be a stupid question, but here goes. Since you need a cable box and the HD-PVR connects to your PC via USB, you essentially need a cable box where your PC is for the HD-PVR to work? My PC is in my office, nowhere near my tv/cable box, so I would assume I would need to get a cable box for my office, connect to my PC Tuner card, connect the HD-PVR to the cable box, and then connect the HD-PVR to my computer via USB??? Just trying to make sense of it all. Thanks

Brent Evans said...

Damian,
You'll need a cable box (and CATV connection of course) in the same location as your PC (if multiple PC's then on the server PC). You connect the Cable Box to the HD-PVR via component cable and audio cable, then connect the HD-PVR to your PC with usb.

Anonymous said...

Hello. Nice blog. I was also wondering if you can record footage from gaming consoles (using component cables). I've been watching this product but I am unsure whether it will work for what I want it to. Thanks

Anonymous said...

Has anyone tried playing back these files on an Apple TV? Any issues? (I assume some further conversion is needed to get the HD PVR recording into the needed aTV flavor of H.264)

Anonymous said...

Yes my Rev C1 unit overheats and is being RMA'd for a C2 with a fan.

Anonymous said...

Someone asked this, but I didn't see a reply... Does the unit record material from sources other than the component inputs? If so, are the recordings still in the h.264 format? Can you adjust the quality of the recordings?

Anonymous said...

It looks like a new hauppauge model number, 1219, is showing up on online retailers. Anyone know if that is the new revision (with the fan) of the hd pvr?

Anonymous said...

Need some advice from the experts here - I would like to use this device to record a number of HD movies from my DVR, and then burn them in an HD-DVD player compatible format on 8.5 gb DVD-DL discs. This would of course be after 5.1 audio support is added. Can this be accomplished with relative ease? What software would be required?

Dave said...

Hi. Been reading all HD-PVR the related posts. Good stuff!

I read a post on the Videohelp forums saying that the unit exhibits playback lag while recording (I.E. Using the Component OUT to a monitor or whatnot while recording).

I mean, not that it matters if the recordings come out fine, but I'm just curious any of you experienced this?

How is the bundled software for editing/cutting up the H.264 files? I've spent a good part of the weekend looking third-party solutions with no luck...I'm so close to purchasing one of these but if even basic edits can't be done conveniently then I'm not sure if this is the product for me (Basically cutting off commercials and converting to AVI or DVD/MPEG-2).

Anonymous said...

Hi,

I was just curious if there was any passthrough lag using the component out? I would like to use this device with my 360 and PS3 to capture game footage (I know the preview window has a 1-sec or so lag).

Anonymous said...

I want to do the same with my 360. I am extremely interested in getting this, but the lag question concerns me. Could someone please give an answer on this? It would be greatly appreciated.

Anonymous said...

I use "H264 TS Cutter" to edit h.264 files.

jocedeg said...

H264 TS Cutter does a great job of cutting the HD PVR files without inflating them: contrary to the supplied "crappy" ArcSoft program, TS Cutter makes the cuts at the closest full keyframe and doesn't re-encode the file. The ArcSoft program is frame accurate but needs to re-encode the file in order to be so accurate. The bad thing is, you don't get to choose the re-encoding bitrate and it seems to re-encode using the highest quality, something incredibly stupid.

I've tried most AVCHD editing program and they pretty much all suck. Too bad Adobe Promiere Pro doesn't support the format ! Sony Vegas doesn't recognize the files, even if it claims compatiblity with the format (mainly the Sony version of the format).

So, for now, choosing the proper bitrate while recording, using H264 TS Cutter to edit and authoring with the ArcSoft piece of $h!!t seems to be the best workflow solution for me.

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